Post by Administrator on Dec 17, 2006 15:25:53 GMT -5
#1
Huffs_91_RS
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Kingsport, TN
Posts: 71
Car: '91 RS
Engine: 355
Transmission: TH350
elec fuel pump & reg. not pumping fuel to carb
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I got my engine in my car and the electric fuel pump is pumping gas through the regulator after I turn the key over and then it stops. Its not even getting enough fuel to start the engine. I need to figure out what the deal is with that. (what it does get at first isnt even enough fuel to run a lawn mower.) Does the fuel pump suppost to keep gas running into the regulator and carb at all times with the key turned over? Like to use what I have. Any help are suggestions would be great. If I cant get it to work I will buy a manuel pump and pick-up tube.
IHI
Car: 86 firebird with 98 firebird interior
Engine: 388cid afr headed 11.5:1
Transmission: Oldani TH400/TCI 10" 4600 stall
Axle/Gears: 31 spline Moser/full spool/4.11Richmonds
Pump needs to be wired into 12V ignition source, or you can wire it to a toggle with a relay so YOU control when it's on or off. The pump will always be pushing fuel to the regulator when its on, the carbs floats will determine when to let more fuel into it.
What kind of pump, what kind of regulator? If you got one of those Purolator electic pumps that may be your problem
Huffs_91_RS
Car: '91 RS
Engine: 355
Transmission: TH350
Where do Iwear it in at? The regulator is a mallory 3 port. You say to use a 12v ignition source, where is one located at? With it hooked up like u say, it let the fuel pump, pump at all times. With it not, thats why it stops pumping after the has been turned. If I try the relay how do I wire it? Thanks for helping. Have u did this berfore?
Stekman
Car: Race Car
Engine: Lots of power
Transmission: Makes me go forward
Axle/Gears: Makes going forward possible.
You are exactly one year older than me, to the day.
Anyway, a 12v source means that the pump is hooked up to a power wire.
A relay would use a standard automotive 30a, 4 prong relay. I got mine at Radio Shack. IT has 4 prongs. Big power wire in, power wire to the pump, ground, and a power wire through the switch. Flip the switch, close the circuit, give the relay 2 power feeds, and the relay gives power to the pump. i would put a fuse on the big power wire to the relay.
What pump is this? Do you mean that you turn the key on, the pump activates, but then stops? Or the pump just pumps, but is too weak to support the engine? How is the pump wired now?
Huffs_91_RS
Junior Member
Car: '91 RS
Engine: 355
Transmission: TH350
My stock pump went out about a year ago and I replaced it. Not sure what brand. When the keys turned over it sends fuel up then after about two are three seconds it stops. I think hooking a relay up will fix it. Thats the answer Ive gotten from everyone.
Hodge
Member
Car: 1987 IROC-Z28
Engine: 383 Vortec - carb
Transmission: T56 - 6speed
There is an oil pressure sensor just above the oil filter. This is what actually runs the pump. All the computer does is prime the pump when you turn the key. If this sensor is not hooked up and functioning properly then the fuel pump will not run while the car is running.
Make sure you have that sensor hooked up. I don't recall what color the wire is but it comes from the pass side fender, behind the motor and plugs into the sensor just above the oil filter.
Mine responded the same way you are describing until I had that sensor hooked up. It took me forever to track down this info. Everyone on here says to just hotwire it but all you need to do is have that sensor hooked up.
Hodge
Huffs_91_RS
Car: '91 RS
Engine: 355
Transmission: TH350
I did a jumper wire and it put way to much fuel out to the carb, even with the regulator turned down. So I'm going to go with a manuel pump and suck it through the elec. The sensor that ur talkn about is hooked up. That was the first thing that I checked. Thanks for the info.
IHI
Car: 86 firebird with 98 firebird interior
Engine: 388cid afr headed 11.5:1
Transmission: Oldani TH400/TCI 10" 4600 stall
Axle/Gears: 31 spline Moser/full spool/4.11Richmonds
Quote:
Originally posted by Huffs_91_RS
I did a jumper wire and it put way to much fuel out to the carb, even with the regulator turned down.
What in the heck are you talking about? what did you set the fuel pressure at? what kind of regulator and carb?
Holleys can take 8.5psi before fuel pushes past the needle and seat, Edelbrock/Carter I have no idea but would assume 8psi would be sufficient. Do go any higher than that.
It is entirely possible your regulator is bad if you cant turn it down to 8psi and have it hold. Is it a return style regulator?which you need if using a EFI pump since they are extrememly high pressure and need a return line so the excess fuel can return back to the tank.
Huffs_91_RS
Car: '91 RS
Engine: 355
Transmission: TH350
The regulator is a Mallory 3 port, which has return line, and the reg is new. I'm useing a Holly 600. The fuel pressure was 4 to 5 and it was pushing the float up and gas was startn to get to the top of the carb where the floats located. I think exactly what u said, the regulator is bad. I'm not even going to deal with all of that. So there for I'm just going to stick a manuel pump on and a inline fuel filter and be done with it. All that will need to be done then is tune the carb. Oh yeah the fuel pressure gauge is new to.
Huffs_91_RS
Car: '91 RS
Engine: 355
Transmission: TH350
elec fuel pump & reg. not pumping fuel to carb
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I got my engine in my car and the electric fuel pump is pumping gas through the regulator after I turn the key over and then it stops. Its not even getting enough fuel to start the engine. I need to figure out what the deal is with that. (what it does get at first isnt even enough fuel to run a lawn mower.) Does the fuel pump suppost to keep gas running into the regulator and carb at all times with the key turned over? Like to use what I have. Any help are suggestions would be great. If I cant get it to work I will buy a manuel pump and pick-up tube.
IHI
Car: 86 firebird with 98 firebird interior
Engine: 388cid afr headed 11.5:1
Transmission: Oldani TH400/TCI 10" 4600 stall
Axle/Gears: 31 spline Moser/full spool/4.11Richmonds
Pump needs to be wired into 12V ignition source, or you can wire it to a toggle with a relay so YOU control when it's on or off. The pump will always be pushing fuel to the regulator when its on, the carbs floats will determine when to let more fuel into it.
What kind of pump, what kind of regulator? If you got one of those Purolator electic pumps that may be your problem
86 Firebird, 388 chevy, stock .060 350 block, stock 400 crank, stock 5.7 rods, KB Hyperutectic 11:5.1 slugs, Holley 950 HP , Bullet solid roller 255/262 .621/.621 cam, Victor Jr. intake, 2" open spacer, AFR 210 heads, Autolite AR3923 plugs .035 gap, Comp Pro Mag roller rockers, BTE stud girdle, Hooker Super Comp 1 3/4" headers, dual 3" exhaust into Flowmaster 40 series mufflers, 31x19 Howie aluminum radiator, MSD pro billet distributor, Blaster 3 coil, MSD 3step, 8.5 mm MSD wires, Aeromotive A2000 electric fuel pump, 4600 stall, TH400 manual vavlebody/reverse pattern, with JW trans brake, 1350 yoke, B&M Pro Ratchet shifter, Ford 9" w/ 4.11 gears 1350 yoke disc brakes, Spohn tubular LCA, Jegster adjustable torque arm, Lakewood 50/50 rear shocks, rear Wolfe Craft Anti-Roll bar, Lakewood 90/10 Darg struts, Moroso trick springs, Weld Draglites 15x5 front 205/75-15 radials, 15x10's 5.5" BS with Hoosier Quik Time Pro DOT slicks 28x11.5, interior from 98 firebird retro-fitted with full Auto Meter Phantom gauges.
Race weight 3557lbs with me and full tank of 92 octane
Bests:
60' 1.480
1/8mi. 6.977 @ 98.52mph
1/4mi. 10.985 @ 122.10mph
All through junk paper air cleaner and muffler
Huffs_91_RS
Car: '91 RS
Engine: 355
Transmission: TH350
Where do Iwear it in at? The regulator is a mallory 3 port. You say to use a 12v ignition source, where is one located at? With it hooked up like u say, it let the fuel pump, pump at all times. With it not, thats why it stops pumping after the has been turned. If I try the relay how do I wire it? Thanks for helping. Have u did this berfore?
Stekman
Car: Race Car
Engine: Lots of power
Transmission: Makes me go forward
Axle/Gears: Makes going forward possible.
You are exactly one year older than me, to the day.
Anyway, a 12v source means that the pump is hooked up to a power wire.
A relay would use a standard automotive 30a, 4 prong relay. I got mine at Radio Shack. IT has 4 prongs. Big power wire in, power wire to the pump, ground, and a power wire through the switch. Flip the switch, close the circuit, give the relay 2 power feeds, and the relay gives power to the pump. i would put a fuse on the big power wire to the relay.
What pump is this? Do you mean that you turn the key on, the pump activates, but then stops? Or the pump just pumps, but is too weak to support the engine? How is the pump wired now?
Huffs_91_RS
Car: '91 RS
Engine: 355
Transmission: TH350
iTrader: (0)
My stock pump went out about a year ago and I replaced it. Not sure what brand. When the keys turned over it sends fuel up then after about two are three seconds it stops. I think hooking a relay up will fix it. Thats the answer Ive gotten from everyone.
Hodge
Car: 1987 IROC-Z28
Engine: 383 Vortec - carb
Transmission: T56 - 6speed
There is an oil pressure sensor just above the oil filter. This is what actually runs the pump. All the computer does is prime the pump when you turn the key. If this sensor is not hooked up and functioning properly then the fuel pump will not run while the car is running.
Make sure you have that sensor hooked up. I don't recall what color the wire is but it comes from the pass side fender, behind the motor and plugs into the sensor just above the oil filter.
Mine responded the same way you are describing until I had that sensor hooked up. It took me forever to track down this info. Everyone on here says to just hotwire it but all you need to do is have that sensor hooked up.
Hodge
87' IROC Patriot Blue
T-tops, Bose, Leather, etc.
383
Holley 770 Street Avenger
10.5:1, Hooker LT's and custom true dual exhaust.
T56-6 speed
3.45 Borg-Warner disc rear
12.5 @ 111mph
373:RWHP 401:RWTQ
Member of Kentucky F-bodies Unlimited
kyfbodies.org
Huffs_91_RS
Car: '91 RS
Engine: 355
Transmission: TH350
I did a jumper wire and it put way to much fuel out to the carb, even with the regulator turned down. So I'm going to go with a manuel pump and suck it through the elec. The sensor that ur talkn about is hooked up. That was the first thing that I checked. Thanks for the info.
IHI
Car: 86 firebird with 98 firebird interior
Engine: 388cid afr headed 11.5:1
Transmission: Oldani TH400/TCI 10" 4600 stall
Axle/Gears: 31 spline Moser/full spool/4.11Richmonds
Quote:
Originally posted by Huffs_91_RS
I did a jumper wire and it put way to much fuel out to the carb, even with the regulator turned down.
What in the heck are you talking about? what did you set the fuel pressure at? what kind of regulator and carb?
Holleys can take 8.5psi before fuel pushes past the needle and seat, Edelbrock/Carter I have no idea but would assume 8psi would be sufficient. Do go any higher than that.
It is entirely possible your regulator is bad if you cant turn it down to 8psi and have it hold. Is it a return style regulator?which you need if using a EFI pump since they are extrememly high pressure and need a return line so the excess fuel can return back to the tank.
Huffs_91_RS
Car: '91 RS
Engine: 355
Transmission: TH350
The regulator is a Mallory 3 port, which has return line, and the reg is new. I'm useing a Holly 600. The fuel pressure was 4 to 5 and it was pushing the float up and gas was startn to get to the top of the carb where the floats located. I think exactly what u said, the regulator is bad. I'm not even going to deal with all of that. So there for I'm just going to stick a manuel pump on and a inline fuel filter and be done with it. All that will need to be done then is tune the carb. Oh yeah the fuel pressure gauge is new to.
Huffs_91_RS
Car: '91 RS
Engine: 355
Transmission: TH350
A jumper wire means, I found the fuel relay and connected a hot wire to hit so that it would run with the key on at all times. Meaning the pump was constantly running, way to much fuel, think reg is no count.
IHI
Car: 86 firebird with 98 firebird interior
Engine: 388cid afr headed 11.5:1
Transmission: Oldani TH400/TCI 10" 4600 stall
Axle/Gears: 31 spline Moser/full spool/4.11Richmonds
Do you have the float set correctly? With only that much psi, setting the float will correct any problems since the needle and seat will stop un-needed fuel flow until the carb needs it.
Sounds like everything you have is the right stuff, just needs fine tuning to optimize. Since you already have the psi at the regulator output at 5psi, go ahead and remove the screw on the side of the bowl and check float levels. If fuel comes pouring out of the sight level plug, turn pump off and then turn down the float. Turn pump back on and see where your at, try to get it so no fuel comes out of the sight plug.
Once you've gotten the fuel level below the sight plug, leave the pump running, DONT LEAN ON THE CAR when setting flaot level as this will screw it up since the car will be "pushed down in the front" with your added body weight, anyways, with the pump running, slowly start raising the float level until fuel just BARELY trickles out of the sight plug. Once you've established float level is correct, go ahead and turn up your fuel pressure to 7 or 8 psi, then double check your float level.
Is the carb new or used? Either way it's possible if you installed any new fuel lines some garbage inside the lines or junk in the tank may be holding your needle and seat open and that's why your getting fuel levels too high.
Your already 3/4 of the way there, dont stop now. If it is a internal carb problem it will show up even when you install the mechanical pump.
Huffs_91_RS
Car: '91 RS
Engine: 355
Transmission: TH350
Ill check the float again. I did that last night and it seemed fine. Thanks for the help on it IHI.
IHI
Car: 86 firebird with 98 firebird interior
Engine: 388cid afr headed 11.5:1
Transmission: Oldani TH400/TCI 10" 4600 stall
Axle/Gears: 31 spline Moser/full spool/4.11Richmonds
Your right there at the finish line, just hate to see you give up when your this close. And like I mentioned, if it's carb related why your getting fuel spurting out of the vent tubes then it will do the same thing even with amechanical pump. Let us know what you find out and we can go from there.
OTHER OPTIONS:
ljnowell
Car: 1987 Camaro
Engine: 350
Transmission: TH350
I dont have any pictures, But I have done it many times, on lots of vehicles, not just thirdgens. Its pretty basic. Take out the pump, modify the pickup, Find a good spot by the fuel lines to mount the pump (most people just outside the tank, on the flat spot), and splice it in. Oh yeah, you will need to hook up power, either by splicing into the factory, or running your own. Not very hard, and there are a few threads here with very detailed instructions.
z28bill
Car: 1987 Camaro
Engine: 383
Transmission: Built Up 700-R4
Electric Fuel Pump Wiring
I am getting ready to install a Holley "Red" electric pump. I am having fuel starvation issues with just the mechanical pump. My question is, can I wire the pump off of the wiring that goes to the tank? Can I hook the pump to the tan wire, or is that too much load for the wire? I would prefer to not have to wire up a switched relay to the battery.
Thanks.
Rustydawg
Car: 86 Firebird
Engine: 355 4 bbl
Transmission: TKO 600
Axle/Gears: 3.73 L/S
I would run the Holley pump from the grey wire just as you suggested. That way you're already fused (20 A) and it is switched by the oil pressure switch off the engine.
If your ride is factory injected the ECM will prime the pump for a few seconds before cranking too. It's all good
05-19-2004, 01:25 PM #9
Keith_Indy
Car: 87 Firebird Formula
Engine: 305 LG4
Transmission: Auto
Found these threads that may help you hunt down your gremlins...
www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/show...hreadid=240931 (Fuel pump relay Power?? Help?)
www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/show...mp+relay+Power (Fuel Pump!!!!)
do a search on the electronics board with "Fuel pump relay power" and you'll find a bunch more.
86IROCKET-Z
Car: 86 IROC-Z
Engine: LB9 5.0 TPI
Transmission: WC T-5
Axle/Gears: G92 3.23
Fuel Pump!!!!
I just got my car edged in black today. Put a new steering column in last night. The system is non-vats. Went to turn the car over today, and it wouldn't even click. Then i found out that the new auto shifter was disconnected, so i got that fixed. The car now turned over, but the fuel pump won't run!
I tried looking for fuses, found one, but it didn't change. I double-checked my wires on the steering column. I just get a faint light whenever i test the "pink" wire for the fuel pump up near the fuse box, but by the time it's near the pump plug, it's completely out. I tried running a positive link to the diagnostic system, and the fuel pump ran fine! I think that I have a ground problem, but i don't know which grounds to look for! I've checked over and over. Any help would be extremely appreciated, and pictures would be even better if you have them
Trickster
Moderator
Car: 1989 Iroc-Z
Engine: 5.7L TPI
Transmission: 700R4
Check out the fuel pump relay at the firewall on the drivers side. Also check the ground wire that comes off the fuel pump wire harness. It attaches to the floor pan near the front of the drivers seat under the carpet.
86IROCKET-Z
Car: 86 IROC-Z
Engine: LB9 5.0 TPI
Transmission: WC T-5
Axle/Gears: G92 3.23
okay.. I checked both of them..
tight.. The car is COMPLETELY gutted right now.. so i don't have to do any carpet searches.. but I checked the passenger's seat ground, and the drivers seat ground.. both tight.. the signal is still not getting there. I know the fuel pump works, but somewhere in the circut, it gets weak. Where are all the grounds for the fuel pump? isn't there one on the intake manifold? I searched, but i definitely need a pic of that..
Trickster
Moderator
Car: 1989 Iroc-Z
Engine: 5.7L TPI
Transmission: 700R4
You are checking the wrong wire. The pink wire goes from the sending unit to the fuel gauge on the instrument cluster. The tan/white wire is the positve wire that you need to check.
Trickster
Moderator
Car: 1989 Iroc-Z
Engine: 5.7L TPI
Transmission: 700R4
Did the gauge work when you had 12 volts applied to the pump. Disconnect the fuel pump relay at the driver side firewall and apply 12 volts to pin "A" of the connector and negative to ground. It is a tan/white wire and has splices that go to the oil pressure switch, Pin "D" of the MAF power relay, and pin "B2" of the ECM, pin "G4" of the driver side firewall connector and from there it goes to the fuel pump. If the pump works, replace the fuel pump relay. If it doesn't, follow the wire routing I listed until you find the problem and fix it.
BTW, it is a tan/white wire at all connections mentioned.
__________________
86IROCKET-Z
Car: 86 IROC-Z
Engine: LB9 5.0 TPI
Transmission: WC T-5
Axle/Gears: G92 3.23
well the pump worked.. I wonder if my wiring is screwed up somewhere else!?
anyone have a pic of their battery and the cables around it? I want to make sure I have the right things pluggd in! I still think that this is a ground problem. is it possible to get the ground wire,and relocate the ground?
__________________
Jeremy
Trickster
Moderator
Car: 1989 Iroc-Z
Engine: 5.7L TPI
Transmission: 700R4
Okay Jeremy, try this. Apply 12 volts positive to pin "A" of the fuel pump relay and ground to pin "B" of the fuel pump relay connector. Pin "B" grounds to the rear of the left cylinder head. This is also the indirect ground for the ECM.
86IROCKET Z
Car: 86 IROC-Z
Engine: LB9 5.0 TPI
Transmission: WC T-5
Axle/Gears: G92 3.23
wooohooo!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
hey thanks a lot trickster. Your tips helped me figure out what I was doing wrong, and today I got it fired up! I had to replace my relay, and also my fuseable links were connected wrong up at the battery. Anyways, I got it fired up, as it warmed up, my dual fans came on !!!!! Man i'm so happy right now!
EVEN MORE!:
iroczman380
Fuel pump relay Power?? Help?
Yea see I just installed a 383 stroker in my 87 Iroc. I have the mallory 4309 and all and Iam trying to figure out how to get my fuel pump to squirt fuel out of the lines and turn on. Before it was a 305 tpi. All the wiring is still in the car. I need to know how I can get the pump running. I am getting power to the relay, but when i hotwire the relay up to the battery I get just a click, but the pump doesnt start running. What wires do I need to connect up? to get the pump to run? any help would be greatly appreciated. thanks in advance. By the way The new motor is going to be Carbed, So anyone whos done this swap before please help, thanks.
Iroczman380
Trickster
Car: 1989 Iroc-Z
Engine: 5.7L TPI
Transmission: 700R4
There is a 20 AMP in-line fuse that comes off the battery that supplies power to the fuel pump relay, the ECM, and the oil sender/pressure switch. The fuse is located near the battery in the engine bay. Do you have the oil sender/pressure switch connected?
br()bert
Car: 85 firebird
Engine: Pos 2.8 pulled and replaced with a 350 tpi motor converted to carb.
Transmission: 700r4, vette servo,shift kit, hayden 15"x8" trans cooler.
Isnt there a fuse on the pass side of the car? Theres two on mine. One for the ecm i think and one for the fuel pump. Try them, if that dont work then rewire it. The relay is still there. Just unhook it from the ecm, ground one wire and run the relay turn on wire to a key on source. Turn the key pumpy worky. Turn it off,pumpy no worky.
F-BIRD'88
Car: 1988 Firebird S/E
Engine: 406Ci Vortec SBC
Transmission: TH-350/3500stall
Axle/Gears: 7.5" Auburn 4.10 Posi-Traction
Fuel injected cars use a high pressure pump to supply the engine. Carbed motors use a low pressure pump.
(5 to 8PSI.)
You'll be a lot further ahead if you replace the in tank pump with one for a carb (5 to 8PSI) with enough fuel volume capacity to keep the carb full while at WOT.
I like Carter electric fuel pumps. Pn P4594
6to 8PSI no regulator required. good enough for a 400hp motor.
If you have a motor with more than 400HP get Carter PN P4600HP or combine two P4594's in parrallel.
Carter pump are one of the few that are designed for continous use. Like on a street driven car.
Can't beat the price.
Rick King
Car: 1987 TA
Engine: 350 stock/twecked
Transmission: 700r4
I did the old trial and error method with a toggle switch. I ran new wires to the back end and used the factory plugin. There is 3 wires and i think I had to combine two of them for the pump to work. Mine is on a toggle like I said so I start it up and them turn on the pump and all seems to work great so far. The car is put away right now so I can't get to it for a pic or anything.
the bracket for the cruise is part of the system that is for the throtle and tranny that bolts down on a carb stud, so I can't sell you the setup. Maybe you can fab one or a locall can do it for you.
Later and
Huffs_91_RS
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Kingsport, TN
Posts: 71
Car: '91 RS
Engine: 355
Transmission: TH350
elec fuel pump & reg. not pumping fuel to carb
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I got my engine in my car and the electric fuel pump is pumping gas through the regulator after I turn the key over and then it stops. Its not even getting enough fuel to start the engine. I need to figure out what the deal is with that. (what it does get at first isnt even enough fuel to run a lawn mower.) Does the fuel pump suppost to keep gas running into the regulator and carb at all times with the key turned over? Like to use what I have. Any help are suggestions would be great. If I cant get it to work I will buy a manuel pump and pick-up tube.
IHI
Car: 86 firebird with 98 firebird interior
Engine: 388cid afr headed 11.5:1
Transmission: Oldani TH400/TCI 10" 4600 stall
Axle/Gears: 31 spline Moser/full spool/4.11Richmonds
Pump needs to be wired into 12V ignition source, or you can wire it to a toggle with a relay so YOU control when it's on or off. The pump will always be pushing fuel to the regulator when its on, the carbs floats will determine when to let more fuel into it.
What kind of pump, what kind of regulator? If you got one of those Purolator electic pumps that may be your problem
Huffs_91_RS
Car: '91 RS
Engine: 355
Transmission: TH350
Where do Iwear it in at? The regulator is a mallory 3 port. You say to use a 12v ignition source, where is one located at? With it hooked up like u say, it let the fuel pump, pump at all times. With it not, thats why it stops pumping after the has been turned. If I try the relay how do I wire it? Thanks for helping. Have u did this berfore?
Stekman
Car: Race Car
Engine: Lots of power
Transmission: Makes me go forward
Axle/Gears: Makes going forward possible.
You are exactly one year older than me, to the day.
Anyway, a 12v source means that the pump is hooked up to a power wire.
A relay would use a standard automotive 30a, 4 prong relay. I got mine at Radio Shack. IT has 4 prongs. Big power wire in, power wire to the pump, ground, and a power wire through the switch. Flip the switch, close the circuit, give the relay 2 power feeds, and the relay gives power to the pump. i would put a fuse on the big power wire to the relay.
What pump is this? Do you mean that you turn the key on, the pump activates, but then stops? Or the pump just pumps, but is too weak to support the engine? How is the pump wired now?
Huffs_91_RS
Junior Member
Car: '91 RS
Engine: 355
Transmission: TH350
My stock pump went out about a year ago and I replaced it. Not sure what brand. When the keys turned over it sends fuel up then after about two are three seconds it stops. I think hooking a relay up will fix it. Thats the answer Ive gotten from everyone.
Hodge
Member
Car: 1987 IROC-Z28
Engine: 383 Vortec - carb
Transmission: T56 - 6speed
There is an oil pressure sensor just above the oil filter. This is what actually runs the pump. All the computer does is prime the pump when you turn the key. If this sensor is not hooked up and functioning properly then the fuel pump will not run while the car is running.
Make sure you have that sensor hooked up. I don't recall what color the wire is but it comes from the pass side fender, behind the motor and plugs into the sensor just above the oil filter.
Mine responded the same way you are describing until I had that sensor hooked up. It took me forever to track down this info. Everyone on here says to just hotwire it but all you need to do is have that sensor hooked up.
Hodge
Huffs_91_RS
Car: '91 RS
Engine: 355
Transmission: TH350
I did a jumper wire and it put way to much fuel out to the carb, even with the regulator turned down. So I'm going to go with a manuel pump and suck it through the elec. The sensor that ur talkn about is hooked up. That was the first thing that I checked. Thanks for the info.
IHI
Car: 86 firebird with 98 firebird interior
Engine: 388cid afr headed 11.5:1
Transmission: Oldani TH400/TCI 10" 4600 stall
Axle/Gears: 31 spline Moser/full spool/4.11Richmonds
Quote:
Originally posted by Huffs_91_RS
I did a jumper wire and it put way to much fuel out to the carb, even with the regulator turned down.
What in the heck are you talking about? what did you set the fuel pressure at? what kind of regulator and carb?
Holleys can take 8.5psi before fuel pushes past the needle and seat, Edelbrock/Carter I have no idea but would assume 8psi would be sufficient. Do go any higher than that.
It is entirely possible your regulator is bad if you cant turn it down to 8psi and have it hold. Is it a return style regulator?which you need if using a EFI pump since they are extrememly high pressure and need a return line so the excess fuel can return back to the tank.
Huffs_91_RS
Car: '91 RS
Engine: 355
Transmission: TH350
The regulator is a Mallory 3 port, which has return line, and the reg is new. I'm useing a Holly 600. The fuel pressure was 4 to 5 and it was pushing the float up and gas was startn to get to the top of the carb where the floats located. I think exactly what u said, the regulator is bad. I'm not even going to deal with all of that. So there for I'm just going to stick a manuel pump on and a inline fuel filter and be done with it. All that will need to be done then is tune the carb. Oh yeah the fuel pressure gauge is new to.
Huffs_91_RS
Car: '91 RS
Engine: 355
Transmission: TH350
elec fuel pump & reg. not pumping fuel to carb
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I got my engine in my car and the electric fuel pump is pumping gas through the regulator after I turn the key over and then it stops. Its not even getting enough fuel to start the engine. I need to figure out what the deal is with that. (what it does get at first isnt even enough fuel to run a lawn mower.) Does the fuel pump suppost to keep gas running into the regulator and carb at all times with the key turned over? Like to use what I have. Any help are suggestions would be great. If I cant get it to work I will buy a manuel pump and pick-up tube.
IHI
Car: 86 firebird with 98 firebird interior
Engine: 388cid afr headed 11.5:1
Transmission: Oldani TH400/TCI 10" 4600 stall
Axle/Gears: 31 spline Moser/full spool/4.11Richmonds
Pump needs to be wired into 12V ignition source, or you can wire it to a toggle with a relay so YOU control when it's on or off. The pump will always be pushing fuel to the regulator when its on, the carbs floats will determine when to let more fuel into it.
What kind of pump, what kind of regulator? If you got one of those Purolator electic pumps that may be your problem
86 Firebird, 388 chevy, stock .060 350 block, stock 400 crank, stock 5.7 rods, KB Hyperutectic 11:5.1 slugs, Holley 950 HP , Bullet solid roller 255/262 .621/.621 cam, Victor Jr. intake, 2" open spacer, AFR 210 heads, Autolite AR3923 plugs .035 gap, Comp Pro Mag roller rockers, BTE stud girdle, Hooker Super Comp 1 3/4" headers, dual 3" exhaust into Flowmaster 40 series mufflers, 31x19 Howie aluminum radiator, MSD pro billet distributor, Blaster 3 coil, MSD 3step, 8.5 mm MSD wires, Aeromotive A2000 electric fuel pump, 4600 stall, TH400 manual vavlebody/reverse pattern, with JW trans brake, 1350 yoke, B&M Pro Ratchet shifter, Ford 9" w/ 4.11 gears 1350 yoke disc brakes, Spohn tubular LCA, Jegster adjustable torque arm, Lakewood 50/50 rear shocks, rear Wolfe Craft Anti-Roll bar, Lakewood 90/10 Darg struts, Moroso trick springs, Weld Draglites 15x5 front 205/75-15 radials, 15x10's 5.5" BS with Hoosier Quik Time Pro DOT slicks 28x11.5, interior from 98 firebird retro-fitted with full Auto Meter Phantom gauges.
Race weight 3557lbs with me and full tank of 92 octane
Bests:
60' 1.480
1/8mi. 6.977 @ 98.52mph
1/4mi. 10.985 @ 122.10mph
All through junk paper air cleaner and muffler
Huffs_91_RS
Car: '91 RS
Engine: 355
Transmission: TH350
Where do Iwear it in at? The regulator is a mallory 3 port. You say to use a 12v ignition source, where is one located at? With it hooked up like u say, it let the fuel pump, pump at all times. With it not, thats why it stops pumping after the has been turned. If I try the relay how do I wire it? Thanks for helping. Have u did this berfore?
Stekman
Car: Race Car
Engine: Lots of power
Transmission: Makes me go forward
Axle/Gears: Makes going forward possible.
You are exactly one year older than me, to the day.
Anyway, a 12v source means that the pump is hooked up to a power wire.
A relay would use a standard automotive 30a, 4 prong relay. I got mine at Radio Shack. IT has 4 prongs. Big power wire in, power wire to the pump, ground, and a power wire through the switch. Flip the switch, close the circuit, give the relay 2 power feeds, and the relay gives power to the pump. i would put a fuse on the big power wire to the relay.
What pump is this? Do you mean that you turn the key on, the pump activates, but then stops? Or the pump just pumps, but is too weak to support the engine? How is the pump wired now?
Huffs_91_RS
Car: '91 RS
Engine: 355
Transmission: TH350
iTrader: (0)
My stock pump went out about a year ago and I replaced it. Not sure what brand. When the keys turned over it sends fuel up then after about two are three seconds it stops. I think hooking a relay up will fix it. Thats the answer Ive gotten from everyone.
Hodge
Car: 1987 IROC-Z28
Engine: 383 Vortec - carb
Transmission: T56 - 6speed
There is an oil pressure sensor just above the oil filter. This is what actually runs the pump. All the computer does is prime the pump when you turn the key. If this sensor is not hooked up and functioning properly then the fuel pump will not run while the car is running.
Make sure you have that sensor hooked up. I don't recall what color the wire is but it comes from the pass side fender, behind the motor and plugs into the sensor just above the oil filter.
Mine responded the same way you are describing until I had that sensor hooked up. It took me forever to track down this info. Everyone on here says to just hotwire it but all you need to do is have that sensor hooked up.
Hodge
87' IROC Patriot Blue
T-tops, Bose, Leather, etc.
383
Holley 770 Street Avenger
10.5:1, Hooker LT's and custom true dual exhaust.
T56-6 speed
3.45 Borg-Warner disc rear
12.5 @ 111mph
373:RWHP 401:RWTQ
Member of Kentucky F-bodies Unlimited
kyfbodies.org
Huffs_91_RS
Car: '91 RS
Engine: 355
Transmission: TH350
I did a jumper wire and it put way to much fuel out to the carb, even with the regulator turned down. So I'm going to go with a manuel pump and suck it through the elec. The sensor that ur talkn about is hooked up. That was the first thing that I checked. Thanks for the info.
IHI
Car: 86 firebird with 98 firebird interior
Engine: 388cid afr headed 11.5:1
Transmission: Oldani TH400/TCI 10" 4600 stall
Axle/Gears: 31 spline Moser/full spool/4.11Richmonds
Quote:
Originally posted by Huffs_91_RS
I did a jumper wire and it put way to much fuel out to the carb, even with the regulator turned down.
What in the heck are you talking about? what did you set the fuel pressure at? what kind of regulator and carb?
Holleys can take 8.5psi before fuel pushes past the needle and seat, Edelbrock/Carter I have no idea but would assume 8psi would be sufficient. Do go any higher than that.
It is entirely possible your regulator is bad if you cant turn it down to 8psi and have it hold. Is it a return style regulator?which you need if using a EFI pump since they are extrememly high pressure and need a return line so the excess fuel can return back to the tank.
Huffs_91_RS
Car: '91 RS
Engine: 355
Transmission: TH350
The regulator is a Mallory 3 port, which has return line, and the reg is new. I'm useing a Holly 600. The fuel pressure was 4 to 5 and it was pushing the float up and gas was startn to get to the top of the carb where the floats located. I think exactly what u said, the regulator is bad. I'm not even going to deal with all of that. So there for I'm just going to stick a manuel pump on and a inline fuel filter and be done with it. All that will need to be done then is tune the carb. Oh yeah the fuel pressure gauge is new to.
Huffs_91_RS
Car: '91 RS
Engine: 355
Transmission: TH350
A jumper wire means, I found the fuel relay and connected a hot wire to hit so that it would run with the key on at all times. Meaning the pump was constantly running, way to much fuel, think reg is no count.
IHI
Car: 86 firebird with 98 firebird interior
Engine: 388cid afr headed 11.5:1
Transmission: Oldani TH400/TCI 10" 4600 stall
Axle/Gears: 31 spline Moser/full spool/4.11Richmonds
Do you have the float set correctly? With only that much psi, setting the float will correct any problems since the needle and seat will stop un-needed fuel flow until the carb needs it.
Sounds like everything you have is the right stuff, just needs fine tuning to optimize. Since you already have the psi at the regulator output at 5psi, go ahead and remove the screw on the side of the bowl and check float levels. If fuel comes pouring out of the sight level plug, turn pump off and then turn down the float. Turn pump back on and see where your at, try to get it so no fuel comes out of the sight plug.
Once you've gotten the fuel level below the sight plug, leave the pump running, DONT LEAN ON THE CAR when setting flaot level as this will screw it up since the car will be "pushed down in the front" with your added body weight, anyways, with the pump running, slowly start raising the float level until fuel just BARELY trickles out of the sight plug. Once you've established float level is correct, go ahead and turn up your fuel pressure to 7 or 8 psi, then double check your float level.
Is the carb new or used? Either way it's possible if you installed any new fuel lines some garbage inside the lines or junk in the tank may be holding your needle and seat open and that's why your getting fuel levels too high.
Your already 3/4 of the way there, dont stop now. If it is a internal carb problem it will show up even when you install the mechanical pump.
Huffs_91_RS
Car: '91 RS
Engine: 355
Transmission: TH350
Ill check the float again. I did that last night and it seemed fine. Thanks for the help on it IHI.
IHI
Car: 86 firebird with 98 firebird interior
Engine: 388cid afr headed 11.5:1
Transmission: Oldani TH400/TCI 10" 4600 stall
Axle/Gears: 31 spline Moser/full spool/4.11Richmonds
Your right there at the finish line, just hate to see you give up when your this close. And like I mentioned, if it's carb related why your getting fuel spurting out of the vent tubes then it will do the same thing even with amechanical pump. Let us know what you find out and we can go from there.
OTHER OPTIONS:
ljnowell
Car: 1987 Camaro
Engine: 350
Transmission: TH350
I dont have any pictures, But I have done it many times, on lots of vehicles, not just thirdgens. Its pretty basic. Take out the pump, modify the pickup, Find a good spot by the fuel lines to mount the pump (most people just outside the tank, on the flat spot), and splice it in. Oh yeah, you will need to hook up power, either by splicing into the factory, or running your own. Not very hard, and there are a few threads here with very detailed instructions.
z28bill
Car: 1987 Camaro
Engine: 383
Transmission: Built Up 700-R4
Electric Fuel Pump Wiring
I am getting ready to install a Holley "Red" electric pump. I am having fuel starvation issues with just the mechanical pump. My question is, can I wire the pump off of the wiring that goes to the tank? Can I hook the pump to the tan wire, or is that too much load for the wire? I would prefer to not have to wire up a switched relay to the battery.
Thanks.
Rustydawg
Car: 86 Firebird
Engine: 355 4 bbl
Transmission: TKO 600
Axle/Gears: 3.73 L/S
I would run the Holley pump from the grey wire just as you suggested. That way you're already fused (20 A) and it is switched by the oil pressure switch off the engine.
If your ride is factory injected the ECM will prime the pump for a few seconds before cranking too. It's all good
05-19-2004, 01:25 PM #9
Keith_Indy
Car: 87 Firebird Formula
Engine: 305 LG4
Transmission: Auto
Found these threads that may help you hunt down your gremlins...
www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/show...hreadid=240931 (Fuel pump relay Power?? Help?)
www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/show...mp+relay+Power (Fuel Pump!!!!)
do a search on the electronics board with "Fuel pump relay power" and you'll find a bunch more.
86IROCKET-Z
Car: 86 IROC-Z
Engine: LB9 5.0 TPI
Transmission: WC T-5
Axle/Gears: G92 3.23
Fuel Pump!!!!
I just got my car edged in black today. Put a new steering column in last night. The system is non-vats. Went to turn the car over today, and it wouldn't even click. Then i found out that the new auto shifter was disconnected, so i got that fixed. The car now turned over, but the fuel pump won't run!
I tried looking for fuses, found one, but it didn't change. I double-checked my wires on the steering column. I just get a faint light whenever i test the "pink" wire for the fuel pump up near the fuse box, but by the time it's near the pump plug, it's completely out. I tried running a positive link to the diagnostic system, and the fuel pump ran fine! I think that I have a ground problem, but i don't know which grounds to look for! I've checked over and over. Any help would be extremely appreciated, and pictures would be even better if you have them
Trickster
Moderator
Car: 1989 Iroc-Z
Engine: 5.7L TPI
Transmission: 700R4
Check out the fuel pump relay at the firewall on the drivers side. Also check the ground wire that comes off the fuel pump wire harness. It attaches to the floor pan near the front of the drivers seat under the carpet.
86IROCKET-Z
Car: 86 IROC-Z
Engine: LB9 5.0 TPI
Transmission: WC T-5
Axle/Gears: G92 3.23
okay.. I checked both of them..
tight.. The car is COMPLETELY gutted right now.. so i don't have to do any carpet searches.. but I checked the passenger's seat ground, and the drivers seat ground.. both tight.. the signal is still not getting there. I know the fuel pump works, but somewhere in the circut, it gets weak. Where are all the grounds for the fuel pump? isn't there one on the intake manifold? I searched, but i definitely need a pic of that..
Trickster
Moderator
Car: 1989 Iroc-Z
Engine: 5.7L TPI
Transmission: 700R4
You are checking the wrong wire. The pink wire goes from the sending unit to the fuel gauge on the instrument cluster. The tan/white wire is the positve wire that you need to check.
Trickster
Moderator
Car: 1989 Iroc-Z
Engine: 5.7L TPI
Transmission: 700R4
Did the gauge work when you had 12 volts applied to the pump. Disconnect the fuel pump relay at the driver side firewall and apply 12 volts to pin "A" of the connector and negative to ground. It is a tan/white wire and has splices that go to the oil pressure switch, Pin "D" of the MAF power relay, and pin "B2" of the ECM, pin "G4" of the driver side firewall connector and from there it goes to the fuel pump. If the pump works, replace the fuel pump relay. If it doesn't, follow the wire routing I listed until you find the problem and fix it.
BTW, it is a tan/white wire at all connections mentioned.
__________________
86IROCKET-Z
Car: 86 IROC-Z
Engine: LB9 5.0 TPI
Transmission: WC T-5
Axle/Gears: G92 3.23
well the pump worked.. I wonder if my wiring is screwed up somewhere else!?
anyone have a pic of their battery and the cables around it? I want to make sure I have the right things pluggd in! I still think that this is a ground problem. is it possible to get the ground wire,and relocate the ground?
__________________
Jeremy
Trickster
Moderator
Car: 1989 Iroc-Z
Engine: 5.7L TPI
Transmission: 700R4
Okay Jeremy, try this. Apply 12 volts positive to pin "A" of the fuel pump relay and ground to pin "B" of the fuel pump relay connector. Pin "B" grounds to the rear of the left cylinder head. This is also the indirect ground for the ECM.
86IROCKET Z
Car: 86 IROC-Z
Engine: LB9 5.0 TPI
Transmission: WC T-5
Axle/Gears: G92 3.23
wooohooo!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
hey thanks a lot trickster. Your tips helped me figure out what I was doing wrong, and today I got it fired up! I had to replace my relay, and also my fuseable links were connected wrong up at the battery. Anyways, I got it fired up, as it warmed up, my dual fans came on !!!!! Man i'm so happy right now!
EVEN MORE!:
iroczman380
Fuel pump relay Power?? Help?
Yea see I just installed a 383 stroker in my 87 Iroc. I have the mallory 4309 and all and Iam trying to figure out how to get my fuel pump to squirt fuel out of the lines and turn on. Before it was a 305 tpi. All the wiring is still in the car. I need to know how I can get the pump running. I am getting power to the relay, but when i hotwire the relay up to the battery I get just a click, but the pump doesnt start running. What wires do I need to connect up? to get the pump to run? any help would be greatly appreciated. thanks in advance. By the way The new motor is going to be Carbed, So anyone whos done this swap before please help, thanks.
Iroczman380
Trickster
Car: 1989 Iroc-Z
Engine: 5.7L TPI
Transmission: 700R4
There is a 20 AMP in-line fuse that comes off the battery that supplies power to the fuel pump relay, the ECM, and the oil sender/pressure switch. The fuse is located near the battery in the engine bay. Do you have the oil sender/pressure switch connected?
br()bert
Car: 85 firebird
Engine: Pos 2.8 pulled and replaced with a 350 tpi motor converted to carb.
Transmission: 700r4, vette servo,shift kit, hayden 15"x8" trans cooler.
Isnt there a fuse on the pass side of the car? Theres two on mine. One for the ecm i think and one for the fuel pump. Try them, if that dont work then rewire it. The relay is still there. Just unhook it from the ecm, ground one wire and run the relay turn on wire to a key on source. Turn the key pumpy worky. Turn it off,pumpy no worky.
F-BIRD'88
Car: 1988 Firebird S/E
Engine: 406Ci Vortec SBC
Transmission: TH-350/3500stall
Axle/Gears: 7.5" Auburn 4.10 Posi-Traction
Fuel injected cars use a high pressure pump to supply the engine. Carbed motors use a low pressure pump.
(5 to 8PSI.)
You'll be a lot further ahead if you replace the in tank pump with one for a carb (5 to 8PSI) with enough fuel volume capacity to keep the carb full while at WOT.
I like Carter electric fuel pumps. Pn P4594
6to 8PSI no regulator required. good enough for a 400hp motor.
If you have a motor with more than 400HP get Carter PN P4600HP or combine two P4594's in parrallel.
Carter pump are one of the few that are designed for continous use. Like on a street driven car.
Can't beat the price.
Rick King
Car: 1987 TA
Engine: 350 stock/twecked
Transmission: 700r4
I did the old trial and error method with a toggle switch. I ran new wires to the back end and used the factory plugin. There is 3 wires and i think I had to combine two of them for the pump to work. Mine is on a toggle like I said so I start it up and them turn on the pump and all seems to work great so far. The car is put away right now so I can't get to it for a pic or anything.
the bracket for the cruise is part of the system that is for the throtle and tranny that bolts down on a carb stud, so I can't sell you the setup. Maybe you can fab one or a locall can do it for you.
Later and
